Code of Conduct

[Zombryo]

Agreed and Signed.

[Ahlara]

I have read and understand all the guild rules of conduct...very clear & concise.

Again, thank you for giving me the opportunity to be a part of your online community!

Ahlara/Trish

[Croww]

Solid codes of conduct, and just consequences.

[Go0fy]

read

[steez]

Read and Agreed

[Skydance]

Even though it's a year old, I do love a good philosophical debate.

For example,

Ashin loves EvE. Ashin can't make much money on EvE because he is just starting out. However Ashin has been playing WoW for the past 3 years and has quite a decent amount of gold on that game, but he no longer plays WoW. So he visits our lovely site D2jsp looking to sell his WoW gold for Forum Gold (FG) so that he can inturn buy Isk (EvE Currency).

Now thankfully in this situation, Sharper, a avid WoW player on (thank god) the same server as Ashin is willing to buy his WoW gold at a 3g :1FG ratio. The trade is succesful.

And now Ashin can go use his FG to buy Isk, at whatever ratio he can get.

Of course, Sebby would kill me if I tried to get into "morals," but let me just float this:

1. Somebody paid for the development of this game. Yes, he was an ego maniacal, scum-sucking corporate pig, and his grave deserves its daily quota of spit ... but he still supported the people who built it, and he still "owns" it. If he (the EULA) says you'll be banned for trading currency and/or items outside the game ... well, it's kinda rude to go behind his back and break his rules. How would you feel if you came home every day and found random people using your porch swing? No harm, no foul, but ... they didn't pay to put the swing there. And they don't pay the taxes for the house. (Maybe you'd be cool with it, I don't know -- I have met people who were just generous like that. But then, you're "EULA" would say, "Go ahead and use the porch when I'm not home.")

2. Phishing scams can look mighty legit. Just because this guy running D2jsp looks completely legit (read: honorable, employing a form of "civil disobedience" to protest a dishonorable system) ... it doesn't mean he is. I don't mean he's Phishing; I mean looks can be deceiving, and phishing scams are a good example of just how deceiving looks can be. This guy could be a front for gold farmers -- a very clever front, which employs l33t social hacking skills. He might take your US$ for FG, use it to purchase gold from farmers, then use "shill" accounts on the forums to sell it in-game. Keep in mind: he controls the website; he controls all you see and hear. (It would be a give-away if he was selling AION gold already, so he cleverly doesn't do it until other players are doing it. Think long-term; maintain your image. I'm not saying "is:" I'm just pointing out "you have no way to be sure.")

3. Eve Online had a player-owned bank. How progressive is a game if a player can run a bank inside it?!?? People would invest ISK with him, and he'd make a profit with the money, and investors would earn a small amount of interest. The guy was managing billions, back when billions were billions! Then, sadly, a real-life situation came up -- somebody had medical bills or something -- and he caved to the pressure. He embezzled every penny he had collected, and sold it outside the game for a couple thousand dollars. "People are only human."

This isn't intended to change policy in any way -- and I hope it doesn't derail the thread. I just wanted to chime in with some cautionary words.

Enjoy the games you play! The destination matters, but the journey is the only thing you can guarantee.

[Ashin]

I'll just preface by letting new folks know that Skydance is an Officer in Defenders of Order, and was one of my early mentors known for his Socratic method as demonstrated here. So you have a bit of a yoda/luke thing here; we'll see if I have yet earned my Jedi stripes.

1. On this point I did make a deliberate decision that the EULA would not serve as the final arbiter for the guild. My motivation here is not so much any specific intention to violate the EULA for the game we are playing. I believe that in most cases our policies are in perfect alignment with it. However, since I cannot know in advance what the EULA for future titles will be, or how the EULA for current titles may change (and they do), I did not think it prudent to commit myself in advance to a "sight unseen".

You could argue (and may choose to argue) that in a case where the guild is in disagreement with a title's EULA, that we should simply choose not to play that game. But I wanted to give myself the freedom to make that decision case-by-case, rather than by doctrine. That is typical of my style and most of our rules or ways are tempered by the notion that the Founder or Chapter Leads have discretion or "final say". Something I have learned since our early days is that it is critical that guild be able to adapt its structure to the needs of the game we are currently playing. That is also the reason why individual chapters have individual "chapter policy" sections, which are compatible with, but more specific than, those documents found in "guild policy".

2. If you look at my responses to Sharper's questions, what I am essentially saying is "to the extent that the site is facilitating a trade between players, I am OK with it." Once you have worked with enough consultants you learn how to hedge your statements like that. I didn't give an unequivocal blessing to that site, and I did raise the exact concern you mention (that it could be employed as a proxy for gold sellers). I only gave my blessing to legitimate, player-to-player trades.

Such trades are a matter of course in online games. We had many players donate gold to fund our guild vault, for example. Players may give or loan gold to their guildmates. I don't recognize cross-game trades to be significantly different from in-game trades (EULA notwithstanding).

3. I don't think that is a hypothetical that should be addressed by our policy. Tilluk donated a few 1000g to the guild in order to help pay for our guild vault. In theory, I could have withdrawn and sold the funds. But we ought not to let the fear of such a thing dictate our behavior. That would in my opinion serve to the detriment of the guild. So, to some extent, we need to accept that certain things are out of our control. I think our recruitment process mitigates those concerns, to an extent, and beyond that I think we operate under the assumption that any Member is worthy of trust unless demonstrated otherwise. If information is provided to the contrary, then we have an obligation to respond, but I don't think we have any obligation to develop a response a priori.

OK boss, how'd I do?

Edited September 17, 2010 by Ashin

[Skydance]

Lol -- I wasn't actually questioning your policy statement. I think it's brilliant, and lays just the right amount of framework for hanging situation-by-situation rulings on. I've always enjoyed seeing you at work.

Not to hurt your feelings, but ... the post wasn't actually addressed to you at all. All 3 points were directed at sites like D2jsp. It's a year out of date, so it wasn't really a direct response to anyone, but I hoped it might open eyes a bit for anyone using a site like D2jsp, and help him or her notice things that might otherwise slip past -- to get people thinking in ways they might not usually think. We often don't see what we don't expect to see, and all that jazz. Call it "consciousness raising."

Oh -- and the mention of Eve online wasn't about you, either. Again, it was related to D2jsp, and the idea that this guy is legit. He may have gone into it all legit, and may still be legit ... but there's no way to know whether or not he'll slip down that dark path some day. Not so much "keep your guard up," but more of "don't fall asleep at the wheel; keep your eyes open." I'm not advocating one way or the other about using the site. I'm definitely advocating awareness of the pitfalls if you do choose to do so.

It doesn't matter if I agree with your position on the EULA as arbiter or not; as you mentioned right at the top, these guild rules are arbitrary, and if enlightened people like you were the only ones playing these games, we probably wouldn't have EULAs in the first place.

[Osmund]

Odd i didn't see anything about requiring forum NUDEZ! Otta make a new draft of this bad boy and be sure to include #8

8. ForumzNudez. Everyone is expected to PM new nudes weekly to Osmund.

[Lyiathan]

Everythings sounds reasonable : )