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Ranks Defined


Ashin
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Generally if someone leaves the guild to join another guild within the same game, Veteran status is considered forfeit. However this part is a bit complicated as, for example, it is very common for people to belong to multiple guilds in WoW. We've never objected to someone having an alt in another guild, provided that they maintain their membership in good standing with the current chapter.

What about the Guild Wars 2 chapter where it is viable to be a part of multiple guilds on the same character/account? You are technically members of however many guilds you accept no matter which one you are currently representing. What defines if and how that is acceptable? As long as someone wasn't removed from the guild by those in charge they are still members whether they are currently representing SoH or a different guild and must still be a part of the guild if the option to switch back is still available to them. If I am reading that incorrectly what are the guidelines on that?

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How each chapter handles multi-guild membership is left up to the discretion of the chapter lead. I believe that both of our chapters share the same point of view, which is that as long as your activity and conduct justify continued membership in our guild, we don't mind if you also belong to other guilds. I underline that word because if someone were to quit this guild and join another, then we are no longer talking about multi-guild membership at all. We're simply talking about a decision to quit.

Does that answer your question?

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What if someone left to "join" another guild, but they never did and henceforth stopped playing the game as a whole.

How each chapter handles multi-guild membership is left up to the discretion of the chapter lead. I believe that both of our chapters share the same point of view, which is that as long as your activity and conduct justify continued membership in our guild, we don't mind if you also belong to other guilds. I underline that word because if someone were to quit this guild and join another, then we are no longer talking about multi-guild membership at all. We're simply talking about a decision to quit.

Does that answer your question?

By this statement it makes me believe that you see "membership" as not based on loyalty to the guild as an entity but obedience to the chapter overlord. If a multi-year/game veteran decides that a particular chapter is not right for them, they essentially lose all credibility with the guild as a whole if they want to venture into new options? All of the YEARS are essentially flushed? How does that begin to make sense?

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Well, if I filter out the bitterness, you do have a legitimate question.

I could certainly imagine, for example, someone from the GW2 chapter wanting to play WoW, realizing that my chapter is a very different sort of thing from the SoH they are used to, and choosing to join a more pvp oriented or casual styled guild. If that person communicated with me / Fera's crew, I could see that we'd easily give it our mutual blessing and set them as a Ghost (assuming they were no longer active in GW2). So, for sure, some personal judgement needs to be applied. The context of the situation matters.

Now, I don't want to revisit your situation in this particular thread, because that is not the purpose here. I will however say two things. Number one, I consider your situation significantly different from the one I just described above. And number two, as part of the Veteran review, we had already identified several specific cases to talk about in order to make sure that everyone is treated as consistently as possible. Your name is included in that list of unusual situations, but - and please understand this but - your name is there in the context of "has everyone been treated consistently?" As of right now, yes people have been treated consistently, and to continue to treat people consistently, two people who recently left my chapter need to be changed to Friend (rather than Ghost). However, we are actively talking about the distinction between Vet->Ghost vs. Vet->Friend, and so we may revise our stance on this. Just understand that we're exploring that as a general topic, ie, "how should this work overall and what makes sense?" It's not a discussion about Nate specifically.

I of course agree that Veteran status should not be trivial to lose - that is why we invented the Ghost rank. However, I'm sure you can also agree that Veteran status should not be a permanent guarantee. It requires something from that person to maintain. So, the fair answer is somewhere between those two extremes, and it isn't easy to come up with simple rules that fit every circumstance.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Following is to elaborate on the "good standing" requirement of the Ghost rank.

When a Veteran quits an active chapter, their rank is determined on a case-by-case basis, according to a general framework. Typically, a Veteran who has simply made a decision to quit playing the chapter's game is eligible for Ghost. However, their communication and conduct, prior to, during and subsequent to their departure, is crucial. Veterans whose sudden or unannounced departure causes difficulty or inconvenience for their team, or which damages the chapter in some other way, may have their rank set to Friend because they will not have met the "good standing" requirement.

When a Veteran quits an active chapter but continues to play the chapter's game, they may still be eligible for Ghost. However, the "good standing" requirement may be harder to satisfy. Again, conduct and communication before, during and after they leave are crucial. These actions are the clearest indicator of whether the individual remains loyal to the guild as a whole, despite their decision to leave a particular chapter of that guild.

In all cases, but particularly the latter, it is also imperative that the player take responsibility for his or her choice. What have the involved parties learned? There are times when the decision to walk away is an excellent teacher of where we call home, for example. The growth of the involved parties should be considered. If the issues which led an individual to leave the guild in the first place remain unresolved, then it is likely that history will simply repeat itself the second time around.

This same framework can be applied to Members (in determining whether they receive Friend or Guest/Stranger status when they leave). However, less deliberation is warranted in this case, because Stranger, Guest and Friend are all equally eligible to be restored to Member.

Lastly, it is important to clarify that a Veteran who has received Friend status is not permanently barred or blocked from attaining Veteran status a second time. However, they will need to (re)earn it according to the ordinary means (typically by sticking with the guild through multiple games or expansions).

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