Kruunch

First, I will let the people that I have lead determine whether I have seen "real" PVP planning in action.

Second, you have substantially overstepped your bounds. If the game gives you that much frustration, or if you have so little respect for me as a leader, you should consider leaving the game, SoH, or both.

If that's the style of debate you enjoy then yes you are correct, I have little respect for you.

Please remove me from SoH.

Aion's greatest weakness is that it is not new-player friendly. 1.9 will help a lot, but the rifting system will work against new players moreso than for them, during their time in Morheim.

This is specifically why Aion's PvP system isn't a good one.

I think we are defining community in different ways Kru.

You're saying.. because the late adopters, slow levelers, and alt-makers do not assist when Elyos rift into Morheim, the PvP community is bad. And I can't disagree that, generally, Asmo are not very responsive to incoming rifters.

I'm glad we agree

What you don't realize is that the people who are most inclined to respond to those kinds of requests are fighting for an underdog faction and have to prioritize.

Hyperbole.

For weeks it was all they could do to keep from losing any more ground in the Abyss, and they felt that if they took even a single night off then the Asmo wouldn't have enough bodies to accomplish anything.

More hyperbole.

Meanwhile they are behind the gear curve and need to find ways to equip themselves. Oh and by the way when you do Abyss PvP every night, you pretty much need to set aside a day for farming mats to replenish your consumables.

You are reiterating what I've already said ... the PvP game mechanics are what is effecting the community in Aion as I've described.

So, amongst all of this, Kru is frustrated because Alsig village is being camped.

Well no ... I've been out of Alsig for quite awhile now. Way to oversimplify though.

Something you did not see in WoW was a person paying for a 300-slot vent server because he thought it would help organize the PvP community.

You're kidding right? You think getting a big vent server up and telling everyone to join is the end all be all of PvP coordination? You sir, have yet to see *real* PvP planning in action then.

You didn't see the kind of multi-guild coordination, the wrestling through personal politics to arrive at a consensus plan. You certainly never saw the kind of inner journey of dozens of guilds that led up to our Kysis victory.

More hyperbole (and incorrect to boot).

*That's* the PvP community on Lumiel, and Forts, worthless or not, are how they keep score with eachother. Now I don't think this PvP community is sublime or anything. Said before and said again EVE has the best PvP community of any game I have played, period. But you should try to put your personal perspective in a broader context.

Can't comment about EVE's community but personal perspective is all anyone has. You feel one way about the PvP community on this server ... I feel another. To give credit where credit is due, you're much more plugged into what the other guilds (both Asmo and Elyos) and their various personalities then I am. All I need to see is one of your linked Mortred posts (and the various replies) to tell me all I want to know about Lumiels PvP "community".

Now some of these specific things with Hide II, etc... stealthers' numerous advantages with rifting.. those are all very minor game design points to me. And each of them has a big series of pro's and con's.

While I agree with this, there are enough of these "minor" design issues to impact the overall PvP design of Aion (and in a negative light).

The broader design of AION is:

- limited and occassional PvP incursion permitted into home territory

- voluntary PvP sandbox in Abyss

That might be your definition of PvP in Aion, but that's not what the actual PvP design of Aion is.

Because I have more of an inclination toward PvP games, I don't equate "losing" with "being griefed",

You have less experience in MMO PvP then I do (fact).

You also have less experience in MMO PvP at the highest level then I do (supposition based on your posts).

which is what a lot of PvE'ers do. I think the rifting system is awesome, but only so long as you are matching similar levels with similar levels.

To Sol's point ... you levelled up with the guild at release. You were neither alone nor experienced what people are experiencing now with regards to Rifts.

Rifting's only purpose in Aion is_to_grief_other_players. Grief in this case being defined as one person's game play being interrupted by another's for no larger purpose then to interrupt it. That is the Aion design doc. That happens to be the mode of play that NCSoft (and the Asian MMO community) seem to prefer.

So maybe in Morheim, for example, they need to install more guards, and guards that can detect Hide II, in choak points so that a level 40 can't really get to a level 20's questing ground. That's an issue with Morheim because it covers such a broad level range.

The issue exists in Besluslan as well (which covers L30-50 incidentally).

And certainly, whatever they do, they need to make it so that level capped players can only rift into areas where people who are working on their last few levels will go. In fact, since we know that the last level of any game launches into this whole "horizontal advancement" as Ry/Eri call it, perhaps max level players shouldn't be allowed to rift at all! Maybe they have to go to the Abyss. That might provide many benefits.

Interesting premise but as pointed out, max level characters aren't the only issue here. If the reverse is true (as you contend) that max level characters don't have equal level foes due to the rifting system, then this would make sense.

I think actually you should go solo rifting, since you are one of the two classes gifted with stealth. I think that would really help to give you a better perspective on how much of an advantage or disadvantage the attacker has.

What makes you think I haven't solo rifted?

Oh and in answer to your statement before about an L48 Gladiator running around Morheim being impossible (untrue) ... here's the deep dark secret:

Elyos's version of There and Back Again (part 1). There's no upper level limit you can take this at.

Also your guard suggestion doesn't work ... any L25 Spiritmaster alt can be parked to summon rifters to "level friendly" areas. That took us all of 10 minutes to figure out the first time an SM summoned someone

As to your point about ganking and pvp in morhiem at lower levels, I think that most of us did not experience this because at the time we were leveling, so was everyone else. The zones were always flooded with people to help. Also people were just learning and getting gear, so there was no super equiped alts that could easily dispatch anyone of equal level that they come across.

The mojoraty of the server are playing the end game now and that is mostly about the abyss and the level 50 instances. Largely pvp oriented.

For the people that rerolled or started late, you are unfortunately left with people that like to gank players etc etc.

I can definitely concede that point ... however would you agree then that doesn't bode well for people trying out Aion now?

I am not sure I understand your point here.

Grinding fort instances for AP to get PVP gear (which is still excellent PVE gear) still requires actually taking and keeping (defending) forts so how is the abyss and related pvp pointless?

You don't find it odd that you PvP for an hour or less (to take the fort) to PvE grind (fort instance) for PvP rewards?

Don't know about you but that just seems counter intuitive as an incentive to PvP to me.

I don't see how making the Abyss pointless, or forcing people to do PvE instances in order to earn PvP gear, relates at all with "softening" PvP.

PvP is already "soft" because it is not required.

Except for grinding out AP doing fort instances (which we both agree is a pretty senseless mechanic for a PvP mechanic), I consider the Abyss fairly pointless now.

At least in 1.9 it will be less tedious.

But I agree with Braxx ... they seem to not know exactly what to do with the Abyss at this point (as evidenced by the flip flopping of timers in every other patch).

I wouldn't say it isn't required, because any type of PvE you are trying to do in Morheim or Beluslan can often be interrupted by PvP not of your choosing. You definitely have to keep an eye out on your surroundings if you want to have any chance at avoiding being ganked. If PvP could be forgotten about entirely, then there would be a Brusthonin from 1-50.

Compared to the myriad of F2P Asian imports out there, I don't find Aion as grindy. They do a fairly good job at hiding it from me anyway. In fact, I do find the solo game in EQ2 (levels 70-80) quite comparable to the 40-50 solo game in Aion. I wish the grouping game of Aion was a bit more varied than it is, but I think that will come with time.

As to what to do about the Abyss, I think they've shot their wad, and are trying to figure out what to do next. As a ranged class, I feel that being stuck on the ground is going to suck a lot, if that is the future. Most, if not all, melee classes have temporary buffs to rapidly close the distance on me and there's not much I feel I can do about it, especially if I'm outgeared. I haven't gotten to do Dredgion yet, so I really don't have any comment on how single groups play in there.

I'm not going to lose any sleep over it right now; I'm content to play "wait and see." There will always be something else to do if I don't think things are going in a fun direction.

/agree

You assume I'm speaking about the general chat aspect of WoW PvP? I really couldn't care less about what some tard says related to the nebulous "your mom" concept, or anything on that level (I think you don't misunderstand me there, at least ). What you say about the PvP community in WoW is directly opposed to all of my experiences playing that game. At such a fundamental level, I can really say nothing other than "Nuh-uh."

Well all I can say to that is that I've had the opposite experiences between both games.

On either of the WoW PvP servers I've played on (Ticondrius and Executus) I could expect to get help *instantly* any time I got jumped. Most times I wouldn't even have to ask in a chat channel ... people responded (both Horde and Alliance) that well.

In Aion (at least on Lumiel/Asmo side) I could be questing next to a group of people, get jumped and see them not raise a hand to help out. This just didn't happen once or twice but *all_the_time*. So much so, that it actually became a huge surprise when I'd see an Asmo come by and help (and to be honest, I'm guilty as much as anyone else because after a time I just stopped caring).

Watching one or two Sins hold Alsig village hostage night after night including attacking people inside the town at the General Goods Store just made me disgusted with the PvP community in this game (and again, this might very well be just a Lumiel/Asmo thing).

And I think a large part of that is due to the mechanics of the game ... players getting jumped in way out of the way locations, players loathing the idea of trying to chase a Sin down with Hide II, the idea of losing AP if you die, and so on. It just doesn't foster a very helpful community and it shows.

Now you've maybe had the exact opposite experiences between both games and that's cool ... that's just not been my experience.

Yes, EQ2 got substantially better with time, and I think by EoF it was a bonafide great PvE game. We should probably try to get back on the subject of where NCsoft might be going with PvP in 2.0, though.

Oh sorry ... thought I made that point.

I think they're going to try to "soften" PvP to appeal more to the NA market (don't think it will work for the same reason EQ2's PvE enhancements didn't work ... perception after release).

Aion is perceived by the MMO world at large as an Asian grind/gank fest. With that kind of rep, you'll draw the more hardcore PvP players, but little else.

The fact that it *is* an Asian grind/gank fest is what is losing them their current NA subscribership (we've all seen the amount of players/guilds becoming inactive over the past few months).

Which is unfortunate, because the game actually plays well ... if given the time to learn its nuances. However WoW and recent MMOs seem to be teaching the NA market that instant gratification is the way to play an MMO.

Ymmv.

But at least you occassionally say things I can agree with.

Just quoting this for its novelty

But yeah I like EQ2's PvE a lot ... it had a great design doc for its PvE content and its general direction has only gotten better.

I think you will be hard pressed to convince those of us who played on a WoW PvP server that it had a good PvP community.

Not trying to convince anyone ... obviously this is my *opinion* (you really need to understand what an opinion is ).

Accordingly, I think WoW has a much better PvP system in place then Aion and again purely on a mechanics basis.

On a side note it saddens me to see that eq2 now has about 150,000 subscribers right now. It's probably the best PvE game out right now .

EQ2 is a great example of what a poor release can do to your game. If that game had been more solid at release, I bet it would have ten times those numbers (and I agree about the PvE part).

I'm sorry. I know there is a lot more to this discussion than this, but I just can't let this one go.

This flashes a giant neon sign with letters fifty feet high that reads "RUBBISH". I played exclusively on PvP servers in WoW, and the PvP community there was about as bad as the rest of its community--which is to say: Horrific.

General chat wise? Sure.

Banding together (even just a couple of strangers doing quests in the same area) wise, soooooo much better then Aion.

I played on Ticondrius (most populated PvP server in WoW at the time) and Executus (when it was newly formed) and both of them had excellent senses of faction pride.

That's not to say you didn't have your normal run of asshats ... just that the *PvP* community worked a lot better together then Aion's does (mind you, this is not a reflection of the players, but the game mechanics of both games).

Whoops lol I think some in NYC think Staten island = Ryker's island anyways.

Staten Island apsires to be Ryker's Island.

The total opposite is true.

This is a perception based opinion so it's neither true nor false. However more people share my perception it seems based on NA subscription numbers in Aion as compared to other NA MMOs that offer PvP but not forced PvP.

There have been very few open PvP games, and I don't know if you have played any of them. Usually games at least force you to pick a premade "team" (a.k.a. realm). But those rare games that are truly open and without restriction have WAY less stress and griefing, because players are able to police themselves. When someone is a complete jackass they wind up getting excluded from functions that require large social networks. So the jackasses make their own networks. So do the non-jackasses. They fight and police eachother.

Actually there have been quite a few MMOs that offer open PvP. I've played a few totally open PvP MMOs such as EQ's PvP server (Rallos Zek server), DAoC Mordred server, AO, Shadowbane and UO.

None of these were mainstream popular in the North American market primarily due to open PvP (among other reasons). Conversely, games such as EQ (blue servers), EQ2 (blue servers), and WoW which offered opt-in or no PvP at all, were much better received in large part because of these systems.

In fact EQ's original design document was changed while in development (ruleset servers added) specifically because of the backlash of UO's open PvP system, which drove skads of players away from the game (EQ was about 400% more successful then UO). Originally EQ was meant to be totally open PvP.

Putting it another way, ONLY in an open environment is there truly any incentive or reward for being "good" or "honorable", because your reputation matters in a meaningful and consequential manner. In EVE, if your corporation proves itself to be untrustworthy or unreliable, that could have lasting consequences. It may limit your access to regions and resources. It may even paint a big target mark on your back. This forces you to evaluate the consequences of "starting shit" before you do it.

What you describe here is not particular to PvP MMOs, but to all cooperative MMOs. The reason being that in PvP there are more ways to "grief" a person thus the community isn't as able to police itself as well.

In opt-in games, in games with premade teams, like Aion, what can you do when you have someone like a Goldenrice? Nothing. Therefore there is no incentive for him to behave better, as there is no consequence to behaving poorly.

You're confusing your terms here. Opt-in means you choose when to PvP (Aion is not an opt-in PvP MMO). I think what you mean here is faction based PvP and the Goldenrice's of the world are still subject to their reputations. PvP systems aren't the determining factor here, but rather risk/reward. If rewards can be gained solo or with a minimum of people (as is the case with Aion and it's single group based content) then a person's reputation means much less in practical application as they require less people to accomplish their goals.

In EQ, through the first few expansions, the entire end game was built around massive raids (40+ people). Reputation mattered a great deal because you needed to be accepted by a raid crew(s) on a regular basis to gain end game loot. EQ possibly had the largest culpability to reputation of any MMO made to date and it was for the most part a 100% PvP free game (blue servers).

Oh, that's not accurate. Check yer numbers.

DAoC at its height boasted around 150k subscribers (I was one of the beta team leads for DAoC).

While I couldn't tell you EVE's current active subscribers, I know one person of the 50 or 60 people I stay in contact with regarding various MMOs that plays regularly and he says that while he likes EVE, it's mostly due to the fact that it's not a crowded game (and this is a game that only has one server I might add). My educated guess would put EVE under 100k subscribers and certainly not over 200k.

EQ at it's height had around 500k subscribers.

EQ2 topped out at around 300k.

SWG around 250k.

City of Heroes topped out at under 200k (just after CoV was released).

This is also the opposite of true.

Actually it is a great example of how "griefing" is created by well-meaning designers in totally unexpected ways. What hiding an opponent's level does is to create a certain amount of risk any time you initiate a fight. When you see your opponent's level, hitpoints, mana, gear, etc.. all that means is that people can become more selective of which fights they will initiate. Being overly selective of which fights one initiates is one of the most common forms of "griefing" - someone who only ganks the helpless while running from any "good" fight.

Again subjective opinion but numbers disagree with you. I've found WoW to have a much better PvP community then Aion (talking strictly PvP servers here) and that is mostly due to exactly what you're attributing griefing to ... selective targeting. While some people can (and do) selectively target weaker people, many people on a WoW PvP server will pass by players of much lower level to them, and this is specifically because they know the level difference and that the other isn't a threat. In many circumstances this will allow them to stop and engage the person socially (via emotes and such) and this simple interaction goes much farther into fostering a community then anything I've seen in Aion.

For example a few months back when you allowed an Elyos to live because you just wanted to farm nodes and you perceived them as just killing bots. Later that same player ganked Balmain and ended up causing a 6 page thread on these boards.

To wit ... the same interaction (yours) had the opposite effect in Aion, specifically because of the mechanics of Aion's PvP (you are meant to fight always and at all times).

The rifting system is the safest and most gentle PvP form possible.

I don't even know what to say to this other than we'll need to agree to disagree.

First of all it is carefully level protected, which an open PvP environment would not be.

At L22, I (along with many others) was ganked by an L48 Ely gladiator in Morheim (almost at the city no less).

What on earth does "carefully level protected" mean to you exactly?

WAR was carefully level protected with structured tiers, level equalized BGs and severe penalties for crossing to lower tiers (you were turned into a 1 HP chicken).

Aion has a token level limit on rifts with ridiculous level ranges such as 20-40.

Secondly only the defender has the benefit of guards, travel, and 100% safe havens.

Tell that to the people ganked nightly at the General Merchant in Alsig Village.

Third the attacker can be "permanently" removed by way of kisk attack, whereas the defenders can mount an ever stronger defense ad infinitum.

Can be ... yes. Commonly is in practice? No. At least not until after the damage is done in most cases.

The only flaw in the rifting system is forcing L50 players to attack mostly L40-45 players.

As I've pointed out, not the only flaw. But again this boils down to subjective opinion about game design. The point I am making here is not about yours or my personal preference but rather mass appeal and why (seemingly) the Aion devs are toning down the more extreme aspects of the PvP game.

But I can bet you that, if they had the option to fight L45-50 players instead, they would prefer that. Well, 99% of them would. This is another point where I think there is a common misconception. People seem to believe that those who will "grief" or who enjoy preying on lowbies for zero benefit are the majority. They aren't. It's a very tiny portion of players who will go out of there way to do such things for no reward other than shits and giggles.

I absolutely agree with you here for the most part, however perception is reality for most people and what you've pointed out is *exactly* why Aion won't garner mass appeal in NA.

It's when the game rewards them for doing that, or punishes them for not-doing that.. then you start to have real problems with "griefing". In the case of AION, the game does not allow someone to rift and hunt for someone of their level, at L50.

Really? When you rift to Heiron, there are no L50 players there?

The game gives rifters no choice but to hunt nearly worthless lowbies, in the hope that if they kill enough, the big targets will come out and play. That's the game's fault, not the player's fault.

Ok I'm confused ... first you stated that rifting is the safest and most gentle of PvP systems, and now you're blaming the same system for turning you into a griefer?

You sound very conflicted.

PvE items are already vastly easier to get than their PvP counterparts.

Not precisely true ... this depends on the player and circumstance. You've personally stated how easy it is to gain AP as an Elyos to the tune of 100k+ AP per night farming instances (little risk PvE content for guaranteed PvP rewards basically).

But what it really boils down to is that if you have a solid premade group that concentratees on PvE, you can gain items fairly easily and are only held to the mercy of the random drop generator (ala DP) whereas if you have the same solid group that is dedicated to PvP you're only constrained by AP gain (the items are a certainty).

What all this boils down to however is perception ... if you perceive that this game caters to griefers, that's what you're going to tell your friends. If you believe that it's easier to gain PvP items, you will concentrate and achieve those sooner (and vica versa with PvE items).

From the best that I can tell it's actually pretty even currently with time being the constraint. I've seen players gear up both ways in my time in Aion and within the same amount of time so I think there is balance there.

I believe the upcoming changes will throw that balance out of whack a little ... how much so I can't tell you but while they are making both PvE and PvP items easier (i.e. less time intensive) to get, I believe the perception will be that PvE will much easier then PvP for the same items (sort of like how you believe that now to be the case) and to that, PvP will start to dip (which actually may raise subscriber retention in the NA market for Aion which I believe is the purpose of these changes).

*gauntlet thrown*

1. First of all, what made L2 a griefer's paradise was NOT the fact that it was open PvP. It was all of the absurd systems designed to try to limit the PvP that accomplished this. I don't know if you played L2, but I will ask this question of anyone who played L2 at launch: what was the ONE thing that made it a haven for griefers, instead of a "real" PvP game?

I almost always get the same answer: that god-damned flagging/karma system. It was terrible. Terrible, terrible, terrible. When you introduce rules like that, you create bizarre incentives and you give havens for griefers to hide behind and abuse.

To me, entering a PvP zone and having someone PvP you is not "grief". I never described a single thing that happened to me in EVE as "grief". To me, "grief" is when someone abuses a stupid game mechanic to harass the hell out of you in ways that don't put themselves in any jeopardy, and therefore unload all of the disincentives onto you.

I never played L2 but caught various synopsis from friends. Open PvP in an MMO = griefer paradise. It's just the nature of people to follow the path of least resistance (in this case, pick on those who have limited potential to fight back effectively (which one could argue is the nature of all PvP and/or conflict anywhere)).

"Griefing" is definitively a subjective term. One person's grief is another paradise. What I mean by griefing here is a forced PvP system ... a system where PvP is not opt in. While this may not be technically "griefing" (as I agree with your definition more) to the western public it is.

Aside from WoW, two of the most successful games in the western market have been DAoC and EVE, both of which put PvP front and center.

Well define successful. EVE isn't really an MMO (more of a massive RTS) and not a game I would call *wildly* successful and DAoC is nowhere close to one of the more successful MMOs to be released (it was successful but only marginally). EQ, EQ2 and SWG were each more successful then EVE and DAoC combined, and none of those games had forced PvP (they were either opt-in or ruleset servers).

The most successful North American MMO to date next to WoW (which is opt-in PvP btw or ruleset servers (another version of opt-in)) was EQ, which primarily had no PvP whatsoever (again, ruleset servers but very few PvP servers). The reason for ruleset only servers was due to UO being released as open PvP and losing a substantial amount of its release base due to this.

2. Secondly, the Abyss IS an opt-in system. You don't have to go there! But if you want Abyss points, you go to the Abyss, and you play by its rules, which are the rules of a PvP game (no gain without risk of loss). That was the premise presented by 1.0. If they had simply added comparable gear via PvE outlets in 1.5, I would not have complained toooo much. But they didn't stop there - they went out of their way to revise the Abyss point system so that the best way to get points was by avoiding the Abyss completely. The game specifically tells you not to go to the abyss because you can get points, riskfree, by running instances. The penalty of points-loss increases with rank, and only applies to the Abyss. So.. as you become higher ranked, the incentive to avoid the Abyss becomes stronger - again, polar opposite of what should be.

PvP in Aion is not opt-in however. You cannot go from L1 to L50 without ever becoming exposed to PvP (primarily L30-45 if nothing else).

Additionally the game hides levels which promotes griefing (griefing in this case being very accurate as an L50 obliterating skads of L20s is griefing in my mind).

Aion also has the Rifts system which promotes griefing (hey come over to their lands and kick their asses while they try to level woohoo!).

There are also a number of really bad game designs around their PvP system (both from a western point of view and a game point of view, some of which we've both hit on)

My opinions on game design are heavily oriented around risk/reward tradeoffs. PvP is harder and riskier than learning a boss script. If you make the rewards for PvE and PvP identical, that is the same as installing a disincentive to PvP. And if you don't think I am correct about that, I want you to fly around the Abyss during a non-Fort time and let me know how much action you see.

This is a two way street ... if you make PvE rewards easier to get you kill PvP (ala WoW PvP pre-expansion).

If you make PvP rewards easier to get you kill PvE (ala WAR).

Right now I'd say they're balancing a fine line however (from a western pov) the risk/reward factor in the game for both PvE and PvP seems a little out of whack (too much time/effort for too little reward) at the end game (the mid game seems fine to me in this regard depending your focus). but only slightly out of whack which is what they seem to be acknowledging with the 1.9 patch. If this makes PvE items much easier to gain then their PvP counterparts, then I'd agree that this will break their game (to one extent or another).

I think what you're seeing is NCSoft trying to make one of it's griefer centric PvP MMOs (ala L1 and L2) more acceptable to the western market, where PvP is generally opt-in and/or heavily moderated by conventional wisdom.

A little too little/late I think for "mass" appeal.

You know you're from Oregon when...

• You throw an aluminum can in the trash and feel guilty.
  
• You only honk your horn if collision is imminent and never for anything else.
  
• You find a wallet with $500 and give it back to the owner.
  
• If someone ran your car off the highway, you might drown.
  
• Every day is casual Friday.
  
• You return from a California (Idaho for me) vacation depressed because "all the grass was dead."
  
• You own more than 10 articles of clothing that have the names of microbreweries/brewpubs printed on them. (Love this one!)
  
• You think downtown is "scary" because you were panhandled there, once.
  
• You are not fazed by "Today's forecast: showers followed by rain," and "Tomorrow's forecast: rain followed by showers."
  

Post your states!

You know you're from New Jersey when...

• You throw an aluminum can in the trash and feel like you did your good deed for the day.
  
• You only honk your horn if collision isn't imminent.
  
• You find a wallet with $500 and give it back to the owner ... minus $500 and any and all credit cards and picture IDs.
  
• If someone ran your car off the highway, you might get mugged.
  
• Every day is Good Friday because every Catholic in the state forgot when to actually observe this holiday.
  
• You return from a California (Idaho for me) vacation depressed because you just left the land of suckers.
  
• You own more than 10 articles of clothing that have the names of sports teams printed on them.
  
• You think downtown is "scary" because you saw people stripping a tank from an armored division.
  
• You are not fazed by "Today's forecast:" because you know with certainly that you will see (again) every weather pattern known to man by the end of the day.
  
• You ask where someone lives by highway exit number reference.
  
• You tell people you're from New York.
  
• You laugh at Yankees fans that wear Yankees hats in Boston while wearing a Giants jersey in Philly.
  
• You think "Yooz" is a real word.
  
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• You claim to personally know Bon Jovi, Bruce Springstein and Kevin Smith (even if you don't).
  
• You think free beaches have something wrong with them.
  
• You brag about having grown up in NYC but actually avoid going there at all costs.
  
• You think paying movie ticket prices for tolls everyday is normal.
  
• You know at least 15 people named Peter, Paul or Vinny.
  
• You don't consider the state line to end at Great Adventure.
  
• You think it is perfectly legal to beat up a Dallas fan.
  
• You know what pork roll is.
  
• You've dated someone from Staten Island.
  
• You don't equate diners and fast food as being the same.
  

I think you're thinking of me, Sol, and 3k is a lot different than 64 total. At 40, in an alliance with 50s, you get 1 abyss point per kill, if that. Never anything more.

I agree with the fort instance point, as has recently been demonstrated by Roah alone for us.

My main thing is that I cannot really do anything in the forts due to my framerate + the fact that an assassin is meant to be played fast paced and single target...

Perhaps my services on the deity general himself are of merit though, if I turned off all players so I could actually move. I will be there next wednesday for the big fort push and we'll see.

Actually you might find playing "freelance" and staying outside the fort to snipe enemy kisks would be a huge advantage to the raid and also play a little easier on your comp.

I didn't say I was waiting for the FINAL level cap years away at level 1000 I said I would be waiting for the NEXT level cap 55 or 60 whatever it may end up being. And I am not fighting naked I have Dark Poeta gear and think that should work for now, and I continue to get upgrades almost every time I go in there and with the loot drop rate increase I can almost guarantee you that I will be in all golds eventually. I think that should work for now don't you?

And I AM spending my AP points I have purchased most of my stigmas I know these will be moot too eventually when the cap goes up but I think stigmas are different especially since they aren't as expensive.

But whatever thanks for your input/flame I do value your opinion.

I was joking silly.

I totally get where you're coming from Chip and don't blame you for hording AP in the least. Everyone decides where the point of diminishing returns is for them and plays accordingly.

I just couldn't resist poking fun

That did seem pretty sarcastic, Kruunch. 0.o

Oh good ... I'd hate for someone to have taken that seriously

You need work on your analogies, but in essence Kruunch makes a good point.

Ok fine ... a small stick.

Happy now?

Why would anyone want to spend all that AP on PvP gear when they are goign to probably increase the level cap? The level cap won't completely negate the effects of the level 50 gear but it does put a dampener on having bought it in the first place and using all that AP. This is why I am refusing to buy PvP gear as well. I plan on saving up to be able to purchase the next level cap PvP gear as soon as I hit that level so I will months and months and months and months of its benefits. Instead of only a couple of months.

That's why I fight naked, with a big stick .... I'm waiting for the level cap to reach 1000 before I put on any underwear (so I can wear them for months and months and months, instead of just ... months).

Wut?

None of us is an officer. Only an officer can transform, and generals (Mordred) get the most powerful transforms of all.

Yeah I get that ... but we *do* have officers on the Asmo side as a whole, and ones that participate regularly in Finrod's swarres, no?

At 3K AP per transform, time to light the fire under some people's butts!

(you'll notice of course how easy it is for me to spend someone else's AP )

Lastly, drop rates on instance loot have been increased. So, hopefully, you won't have to run an instance over and over again for that one piece of loot you really wanted.

This is the big one for me (that and the stun protection).

I don't mind doing instances over and over but Aion borders on the ridiculous (even by EQ standards no less) in the 30-45 game (FT, SR, Alq, etc ...).