Barrìcade

Unfortunately no. They said I wouldn't get any thing for certain until Friday. If you guys find someone in the mean time I totally understand, but I'll check in as soon as I hear none the less to see if you are still looking for a tank.

Been out of town for work. Didnt hear anything this week. I'll be making some calls Monday to get an answer, but I am still planning and hopeful that I will be able to tank for you guys.

I am excited about how you guys are running and the tempo of your guild. I'll be sure to let you know as soon as I get word back. Should be within the next week.

Hopefully things shake out in a way that allows us to slay some virtual dragons together

Enjoyed talking to hip today in mumble. Tank nerdiness abounded.

If anyone has any questions that I failed to respond to please feel free to ask. I look forward to hearing from and hopefully playing for you guys soon.

Also thank you for all the well wishes!

Hip,

LOL Damn it man! I was crafting a response to your first post! I do appreciate your examination of my usage tho. You raise concerns and ideas that I have been thinking about myself especially going into 5.2 where they are changing some things.

I plan to do 4 Windlord fights in LFR soon, probably Tuesday, and post my results. 2 full on blocks and 2 full on barriers. I know 2 and 2 isnt exactly a full sample, but it should give us plenty of data with a wider variety of healer types and skill sets to compare the two.

Would you mind talking Saturday? I just found I had a death in the family today so I'm a little off and I need to make some phone calls home, but if you have a minute this weekend just give me the time in EST and the login info for the voice software of your choice, I assume it's the one noted in the policy and leadership forum, and I'd be happy to talk to you. You seem to enjoy tanking so I'm eager to prot-nerd out with someone in a more real time forum.

I will post responses to Hip and Ashin later today once I'm off work, but I am happy to talk in Mumble this weekend.

I can log on at 9p EST or whenever is good for you. Please PM me the mumble info or send it to me via RID request

Basically yes, if you find yourself with enough rage you could either stack some dodge/parry or if you continue the Barrier route, stack Strength to build your base AP. Just tossing out ideas.

I experimented with the new talents in beta and once they went live and I got proportionally less ap from strength gems than I did from stam gems. To make sure I wasn't crazy I tested it again tonight and I do gain more by going stam over strength. I could compound on that by dropping stats like parry or expertise for strength which would give me a bit more AP, but that doesn't seem worth it to loose that mitigation nor does it seem to be what you are advocating.

Also, the return on dodge/parry is less than it is for mastery. If I have to budget non gear stats towards something after hit/exp are done mastery gives more bang for the buck. It all depends on what the healers prefer. Even predictable damage or spiky damage.

http://elitistjerks...._cataclysm/p40/ Now outdated equations, but the principle remains the same. I think it outlines it well

http://sacredduty.ne...in-mop-part-1/Current 3 part Avoidance discussion and how DR affects it

http://www.tankspot....nishing-Returns Current discussion about block and how DR affects it

Here we go.

After further review, I’m curious about your talent and glyph choices. Is this the “normal” set-up you use in a raid? Talk to me about the utility you see out of a glyphs like Bull Rush and Incite as well as talent choices like Piercing Howl and Dragon Roar

I change talents every single fight depending on what I'm doing. Howl and Roar aren't there all the time. They may just be what I needed at that particular moment.

For instance I use bladestorm on windlord and garalon, but I don't use it much anywhere else on a boss fight. I also use avatar on garajal since the add in the spirit realm is stunable, but I seldom use it anywhere else now that the rage component is gone from it.

I typically keep revenge glyphed all the time as well as incite. Incite is free threat and dps when dc is up. The third glyph changes regularly depending on what I'm doing. It typically fluctuates between Blitz, Bullrush, hindering strikes, Heavy reap, long charge or enraged speed. That choice typically depends on whether I'm looking for greater front end threat, kiting, or free rage where I can get a charge in.

On to fight specific thoughts.

ToeS from 2/12

Protectors of the Endless

Looks like you spent a fair amount of time tanking Asani, yet I see zero interrupts? That’s a concern for me as a Prot warrior could very easily have 3 interrupts at their disposal. What was going on in that fight that you didn’t use any of those tools? Asani cast 166 water bolts during the fight.

Your active mitigation use also puzzles me. I see 61 casts of shield barrier and zero casts of shield block, what was going on there? I can appreciate the scaling value of Barrier once you build vengeance, but there are many points early in encounters or in lulls of damage taken where a Block > Barrier.

Overall your CD usage has me concerned. In a fight lasting 7:58, I see only 1 use of Demoralizing Shout, 2 uses of Last Stand (and you have the set bonus lowering the CD to 2 minutes) zero uses of Shield Wall, zero Uses of Rallying Cry, etc.

I do see 2 uses of Vigilance and 2 uses of Safeguard which is good to see you have your tanking partner’s life in mind.

Your rage use is also curious to me. You seem to be quite focused on DPS output and using your rage on Heroic Striking. I see 8 uses of Battle Trance (which tells me you could easily track and use Demo Shout effectively) 37 Heroic Strikes and 1 Cleave vs. 25 Ultimatum procs. Thoughts?

I normally tank kaolan and I was tanking him that day as well. Im not sure why it would show me tanking asani, because I dont think I ever even touched the caster adds. But, I can respond to the substance of the question none the less. When I am tanking one of those two I typically burn my disrupting shout and spell reflect on cool down but save my pummel for when I need to move them out of the healing water puddle.

About casting barrier over block, again assuming I was tanking one of the caster adds and doing so, I'm not sure why I would want to bank 60 rage to use an ability that doesn't mitigate spell damage. Barrier would absorb whatever bolts they toss at me but block would not.

Finally, I'm confused why you would be concerned about CD usage. It seems that you are advocating burning Defensive CDs on CD, which doesn't seem like an effective strategy to me. That would be tantamount to bombing heals into targets at full health. Sure you're doing lots of healing but you're not doing it where it's needed. I had planned to trow up a wall and stand at the 19:49 mark as I was at 22 stacks but I just derped and didnt see that he was that close to pooping another defiled ground on me.

So, typically I save cool downs, even the shorter ones, for when I think I'm going to need them. Obviously I don't always make the right call, but I feel its better to have it when you need it than it is to use it just because its up and not have it when you really really need it to keep you alive.

Your CD usage on Tsu Long looks a bit improved, with 3 Demo Shouts and a Shield Wall tossed in the mix, but still 20 Shield Barriers and Zero Shield Blocks, the add phases and tank swaps would dictate Block imo.

Still digging you use of Vigilance and Safeguard I must admit.

I didn't tank the big add and his babies I was helping shut down the adds that march to Tsu Long. We do this because I have so so many stuns and slows coupled with the fact that I can be all over the room as a warrior it just makes more sense for me to help dps keep those adds under control. We used a similar strategy on the last hammer phase of Ragnaros. I helped keep suns stunned/slowed while the other tank did initial the initial roundup of the larger adds.

I haven't really spent time outside LFR tanking the big add and his spawns, but I suspect that you would prove correct in block being better than barrier in that instance.

You see more frequent usage of Demo Shout because Tsu Long's breath is more frequent I know it's coming and I can look at my health to determine if I need a big cool down to pull me through or something smaller. Also, because the damage coming in is spell damage I'm using barrier.

On to Sha, again the same things. I am seeing 30 Shield Barriers and zero shield blocks (tank swaps, Thrash bursting your bubble) and zero Shield Walls. 5 Demo Shouts this time, so that’s more in line with what I’d want to see.

Thrash dictates more shouts so it was used it more frequently. If I never have to use my wall in a fight then I've done my job right. I try to save shield for moments when I know I'm about to get bombed or I see healers take a dive, or basically moments when I know I'm going to spend some time living on my own.

Going back to HoF on 2/7

Wind Lord

Looks like you solo tanked this one?

55 Cleave casts on 13 Ultimatum procs, 6 uses of Deadly Calm. Hit/expert cap and a plethora of Revenge procs would lead to a heavy Rage income, but I’m concerned about a trend of offensive mindset.

Demo Shouts hit a total of 35 targets which is good, should equate to 5-6 uses on a 6 minute fight.

33 Shield Barriers, zero Shield Blocks (initial pull, once adds die and boss pauses to do specials)

Yes I single tank this fight without much trouble. If I die it's because Quickening is dispelled too slow or not dispelled at all.

As you noted I used CDs much more frequently during the fight because the damage intake throughout the fight is pretty high. It dictates less judicious use of cool downs and more just staying up and swinging.

I suppose you could construe using DC as being offensive minded, but when coupled with the incite glyph the cleaves/heroic strikes are virtually free. If I were throwing all of my rage to cleaves I wouldn't have the rage for barriers and I wouldn't stay alive.

So in reading your critique the central question seems to be "Barrìcade, Why aren't you shield blocking?"

In short, its because I tend to fall in the barrier camp of the debate.

To be a barrier tank, you hit/exp cap which increases DPS, you stam stack, which is good for tanks for obvious reasons, and your mitigator is never obsolete (with the exception of garajal), and it gets better as your vengeance stacks.

To be a block tank, you hit cap/ soft exp cap, stack mastery/stam, which, once you get it high enough is like having shield wall on all the time with respect to physical damage. Which is great so long as no one is throwing fire balls at you.

As a barrier tank I DO occasionally switch to block. The litmus test I use on the fly is the length of time my big barrier lasts. If it gets blown out in 3s or less then block is the better option. Luckily, thus far that rarely happens to me.

Hip,

Thank you for taking the time to go through my logs and thank you so much for the input!

My response will take me some time to compose so just letting you know I'm not ignoring you My response will just be a bit lengthy and I need to dig up some old articles that I forgot to save.

Thank you for the warm wishes and cheers from challenge mode lovers who posted here as well! Despite having my 9/9 I still run and I'm always looking for people to do them with me on off days.

Whether I'm accepted or not you can add my Battle tag to your real ID and well hit some up over the weekends for those interested.

Whats up Barricade,

Thanks for putting in the app, it's a good one, to the point with some personality thrown in there. Also I'd like to say thank you for serving in the military, what branch of service? Air?

I'm a communicator in the Navy stationed in Naples

I'll get to your logs at some point today, but i have a few questions off the top for you.

I see you've gone for hit/expertise hard cap, how's that working out for you? Have you tried playing with lower levels of hit/expert and higher avoidance? What's your rationale for going to the hardcaps?

I like the way barrier driven by hit/exp works vs the way warriors used to in previous patches. I wasn't going for hard cap outright, it just happened to work out exactly with mister robot. I don't mind dropping below the caps so long as I'm within a %. What I like about hit/exp stam over mastery stam is that it puts YOUR survival in YOUR hands. Going mastery stam with block runs alot like cata and earlier warriors did, providing your healers with a predictable stream of damage, but ultimately leaving you at the mercy of their skill level.

I don't say that to disparage my current or future healers, but if I'm going to succeed or fail I would rather it be as much in my hands as possible.

Im not sure what you mean by going higher avoidance. If you mean leaning heavier towards dodge/parry, I haven't seen anyone using that strat on a mitigation tank yet. To my knowledge, and I may just may not have run across the numbers yet, dodge/parry have steeper diminishing returns than Mastery but I have seen people continuing to mastery stack and I understand the rational behind it. Everything you put into mastery goes straight to crit blocks once you start shield blocking. It is a strat I plan to explore once 5.2 hits as they are nerfing the contribution of vengeance to AP as it relates to your barriers... Sorry I didn't mean to open up the block v barrier debate again here. Both seem to be working for people, I just like barrier better and feel its more versatile.

Tell me about your add-on; what are you using to track multi-target threat, CD uptime/availability, buffs/debuffs?

I use tidy plates/threat plates for multi targets. If it's red its loose, if its yellow I'm losing it, and if its blue its mine. I primarily make custom prompts through power auras for my uptimes and notifications, but I also use coolline to give me a macro level view as to where my cooldowns are.

Warriors have been powerful this tier; whats a fight you feel you've really been able to showcase/seems tailor made for warrior tanking?

However not every fight will play to your strengths, whats a fight you've struggled with?

So I thought about this for awhile and I'm really sorry for how I'm about to answer this. What fight seems tailor made for warrior tanking? Garalon, what fight do you struggle with while warrior tanking? Garalon.

Here is why. During our kills we had the tanks do the initial two kites. I've done it on both my warrior and my paladin. While NOT kiting my warrior does amazing. The damage is predictable and all I basically have to do is build to 60 rage for a big barrier before each swipe and hit mini cool downs on crushes. However while kiting I am completely useless as we put the kiter tank further form the boss than his soaker counter part who remained in melee range. If I cant punch it I cant build rage, if I can't build rage I cant defend myself. Unlike paladins who can still throw out a judgement or an avenger shield to gain some holy power now and then warriors pretty much always need to be in melee.

So in summary fights that don't allow warriors to go toe to toe with something are rough, but anything with fairly predictable damage spikes we do well at in my opinion.

The reality is you will need to do serviceable DPS on at least some fights each tier. There will be fights that call for only one tank or just don't suit the warrior tanking toolbox. What can you do to improve your DPS output, but more importantly shift your mindset on DPSing?

I think I oversold the whole "I hate dpsing" think in my OP... Let me be clear i dislike doing it and I'm no super star, but I recognize that no tank is best for each fight all the time and you need to be able to play your other trees. While I haven't dpsed this expansion yet, I am confident that given the gear I can learn enough to do appropriate dps when the fight requires it. I am always open to advice on either of my specs and I certainly try to implement advice given by good dps warriors.

I OTed for a DK during dragon soul and I went dps for 10m zonozz and 25m yor. I did average numbers, but all the other melee kids made fun of me .

Whats something you do as a tank that separates you from other tanks? Brag a bit.

I think many tanks get into a DPS mindset when tanking. That is to say their litmus test for success is am I staying alive and taking as little damage possible in the same way DPS asks itself "am I putting up the biggest numbers during the fight?"

While I do make mitigating damage, keeping aggro, and staying alive my biggest priorities I also try to ask myself how I can help the other tank and the raid stay alive and do their jobs better. It's not just knowing how to keep yourself up during a certain point in an encounter, but also helping others do their jobs as well. It's not enough to just switch to blowing rage on heroic strikes during burn phases its losing a few seconds of personal dps to toss out a shattering throw and skull banner to boost everyone else's dps during that phase. It's not enough to be happy that your damage intake is low during a defensive hunker down, but also watching health bars and dropping a rallying cry or a vigilance/safeguard to another raider who is in danger of dying.

A regular tank pats himself on the back for taking low damage during garalon and bitches out the kiter who dies to pheromones and wipes the raid. A good tank sees that kiter dying and tosses them a vig. Sure you take a bit of that damage but your kiter just might complete their round and you might prevent a wipe. An average tank pops last stand during unseen strike and feels uber when they're the last man standing, a good tank pops rallying cry and a demo banner to keep everyone else up.

In short I think that group minded tanks are always better than self minded tanks.

Grats on the oldschool Quel'Serrar.

Thank you! Many a dire maul run to get my compendium and a near death to ony breath led me to getting this old school tank right of passage. Getting it was actually one of the first times I got to MT a raid boss in the "good ol'" 40 man days

For now I'll have to say arriba dare-chi

Hip

Concise works. Welcome to the site and thanks for the app - I'll be interested to hear Hip's review of your logs.

My first question is about your living in Italy (something that is going to make several of us very envious, by the way). What do you do, and how did you land there? Talk to me about your internet connection - I'm worried about having a main tank with a heavy ping. Aside from that, how do you manage the time zone differences? Attendance is of course crucial to us.

I'm here with the Military, my ping is stable at 140ms to the Chicago servers where Stormreaver is based.

I go to sleep and get up early for raids. I currently raid M-TH 1:30am-4:30am my time. Raiding your times 9p-12aEST (3:00a-6:30a my time) wouldnt be that different. I would have to leave early on rare occasions (once or twice a month) with several days forewarning for duty, but that should stop within the next month or so.

I think long and self aggrandizing posts are weird, so Ill be concise and honest.

Professional Information:

I am a serious minded player who has been tanking since Vanilla. I tanked Zul'Gurub to Nefarion in Vanilla, Kara to Tempest Keep in BC, I took a break during WotLK but pug tanked through Sindragosa, tanked normal T11, some heroic T12, and all heroic T13 content in Cataclysm.

I also have 9/9 Gold in challenge modes. Not sure if anyone in guild is into those or not, but it's something I enjoy and would be happy to run with anyone interested.

I don't have alot of tanking experience outside of WoW. I played an inquisitor in SWtoR (Darth Darktoot on The Fatman), a Lancer in Terra, and a Chosen in the ill fated Warhammer MMO.

Currently I am the main tank for a guild that is fracturing due to pre 5.2 malaise. I have 8/16 HM experience, and I am looking for a guild that loves to raid!

I love, love, LOVE tanking! I'd tank even if there were no loot or e-peen involved. If it's a challenge to live through then I'm on board to throw a shield in front of it!

If you pick me up pretty please don't make me dps. When I dps the keys all turn to vipers and they bite my face. I am capable of doing average numbers when called upon although I havent geared for it nor have I DPSed as an off spec since Cata.

Armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/bleeding-hollow/Barr%C3%ACcade/advanced

WOL: http://www.worldoflogs.com/guilds/202184/

Battle Tag: Insanoflex#1178

Personal Information:

My name is Kyle, I live and work in Italy. I speak just enough Italian to leave native speakers staring at me with a bewildered look on their face (I assume they are awestruck at how awesome I am at it) and order food.

I like rubber duckies and hate babies. I love swimming in the ocean, running, and eating oreos in my underwear while watching farscape.

I'm married, 30, and unashamedly (at least on the interwebz) a blizzard fan boy.

This seems like a skilled and fun group and I hope I get the opportunity to hurl my body in front of bosses for you. Hit me up any time if you have any additional questions

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