simetrik

For many reasons, I'd like to withdraw my application. It seems that by being verbose, I've turned people off to my app, rather then my desired effect, which was to prove that I put more thought into my play (and general self-portrayal) then you might think an 18 year old would. Despite putting significant effort into my application, I'm not sensing a lot of reciprocation, and that's totally fine - it just doesn't seem like I'd mesh well in this particular environment. I suspect some of you have already had similar thoughts. Best of luck with Lei Shen, and once again, best of luck finding a tank that's a good fit for your guild.

Now 10/13h and 538.47 average ilevel.

With all due respect, that just makes me think you haven't read my posts. Rizor and I (mostly me, if you're counting sheer volume) have repeatedly stated that RC has less output then BT - that's math. You can't deny that fact. If you didn't manage blood tap properly and capped your charges constantly, sure, it wouldn't be viable anymore. But I don't do that. Check out any of my logs. Hopefully that will address your concern relating to the benefit of RC on hectic fights. One of the convenient things about the death knight resource system is that you are playing optimally (or at least, maximizing output) so long as you don't cap anything. True optimization is all about placement of those resources into abilities within the relatively lax window that blood death knights have to spend their resources. Blood tap actually allows greater flexibility, making it easier to optimize, in a sense (kind of a weird way of looking at it, but true), whereas RC speeds up the point at which you need to spend resources, or else you'll cap. I'm not saying blood tap doesn't eventually force a decision, but at least you can store blood charges, and redistribute accordingly. I can practically hear some of you thinking again, "Sure, he says this, but that requires micromanagement which would lead to other mistakes, which would have a larger, more negative net effect then the benefit of choosing blood tap". Once again, check my logs. I'm not capping my charges, and even if I'm not redistributing perfectly (this is where I agree with you, no human can do that perfectly) I'm still benefiting from increased death strike output, and the option to react to spike damage, two things I would not have with RC. If I'm correct, you're saying RC is superior in fights with consistent damage because it smooths the distribution of death strike usage. That view is, to say the least, an optimistic view of the talent. I understand that maybe looking at the talents, initially you would you be led to believe that each has situational use. RC has more consistent coverage, BT counteracts spikes, RE trades randomness for maximum output. Yet not only can BT counteract spikes, it unquestionably has a higher output then RC, assuming proper play, which I have demonstrated. RC's increased rune regeneration does spread out the effect of that talent. You could say that that would result in more consistent coverage. Yet, RC has fundamental problems which can be summarized in two ways: A) it is dependent on a proc, which, if you get unlucky, can lead to greater spikiness than proper use of BT would ever allow and B) it can't counteract spikes as well as BT. Furthermore, and perhaps most importantly, choosing RC leads to less overall death strikes than BT. RC may smooth the distribution slightly, but does so in an unpredictable manner, leads to less output, and cannot react to spikes. Hopefully that addresses your concern regarding fights with more consistent damage. This is all stuff that I've said before (in fact, I'm repeating myself in this exact post). I understand why managing blood charges would be perceived as difficult, but my logs prove I'm using the talent well (hardly optimally, but at least I don't cap). Proper management of that talent leads to all of the benefits I've stated above. I'm not trying to be rude, but assuming proper play, blood tap has many, many benefits compared to runic corruption. Maybe I've been blinded by the EJ blood dk thread's insistence on countering burst damage at all costs, but, on the other hand, none of you have said anything that can counteract what I've proven on this thread. If you don't perceive it to be worth your time, I understand - I'm just an underage (sort of) applicant - but please don't assume that you're right without citing hard evidence. I understand this is a technicality, a minor detail, but I think you may not fully understand what I've been saying in this thread. I've invoked both theoretical situations and my own logs while proving my point. Let's see something similar if you want to actually prove me wrong.

Fair enough.

RC isn't a bad option, a lot of death knights are taking it and succeeding in their raiding endeavors. This is undoubtedly a discussion over the minutiae of optimization. Regardless, my point still stands. Check out my log - on a quick mouseover, I don't cap blood charges in the entire fight, yet I manage to pool them and stock up runic power while holding them so that I can quickly regenerate them after spending them (how many times can I say them in one sentence? Five times, apparently). I think I'm doing well in my tanking efforts, and I'm not capping any of my resources (runes, rp, or blood charges), so I feel justified in saying that BT is certainly sufficient as well. You mention that sometimes you had good RNG with RC. That's awesome. If RC constantly chain procced it would be a no brainer to pick that talent. But just as there is good luck, there is bad luck (I couldn't think of any other way to phrase that that sounded less zen master-esque). What if you reach the last head on Megaera, and you don't get a single RC proc? It's mathematically, but also realistically, possible. With blood tap that situation never occurs (when you cap hit).

I appreciate the compliment. Trying to become a better raider is always my top priority, and hopefully that will be one of, if not my most, useful qualities in whatever raiding I pursue in the future.

Not to harp on the issue too much, but I think you're disregarding the fact that RC is a 45% chance proc. It's not actually reliable - It's just a way to increase rune regeneration without having to micromanage another ability. I won't pretend that I'm a perfect player who practices perfect coverage between those moments of weakness that BT naturally creates, but that doesn't mean that I'm not aware that I'm vulnerable during that phase. In a sense, this is Slootbag's whole tanking philosophy - he uses his DP procs to cover himself with SHoR as much as possible, then covers himself with cooldowns when SHoR isn't up. It's a very in the moment style of tanking. I won't pretend to be anywhere near Slootbag's level, and even at his level of play, he doesn't cover himself every time SHoR is down. But, frankly, he doesn't need to, and neither do I - any logs can justify this. It's more about being aware that you are vulnerable to dying in that moment, and so long as a death knight always keeps a death strike ready to go, or has one of their many cooldowns ready, they are the most reactive tanks in the game - it's not hard to react to a spike. In short, I think your point about blood tap is accurate, but I feel like you're not acknowledging the inherent RNG involved in picking RC. Furthermore, the difference in math is significant - as Rizor states, you need about 150 rp per extra death strike with BT, and 222 rp per extra death strike (on average, obviously) with RC. That's not a difference you can ignore easily, especially when a rune strike is guaranteed to generate a blood charge. I can't rely on an RC proc to save me from burst damage, which, as I've stated a few times before, is unquestionably the most dangerous thing a tank has to deal with in 25h progression. Yet, blood tap is an ability that can always be counted on - and this is a characteristic that is valued in real raiding, not math. I agree that it's easy to point out flaws in the mechanics of BT, but I'd rather see you (Hip or Shaffer) point out the strengths of RC that make it viable over BT. Maybe it can be attributed to my playstyle, but I still don't understand how RC could be the better choice.

I have no idea why I didn't pop DRW around 21:46:00. Its bind is right next to my synapse springs bind (which I used on cooldown). I suspect I may have been rezzing someone who died from the tornado phase (we had a few people die every tornado on progress) and gotten distracted - entirely my fault. Regarding IBF, I won't lie that I'm extremely cautious about using it. My uptime on the log I linked isn't awful - I used it 3 times in an 11 minute fight. Typically, I preplan its usage, because when you need IBF, you really need IBF. I suspect I was keeping it as a backup in case I pulled aggro back from my offtank as impale was going off (you would think that would be a weird fringe circumstance that wouldn't happen if I was watching my threat, but it happened multiple times in the first phase, despite whatever my threat level was. I still have no idea how it happened, and why that behavior was limited to the first phase). Trinkets I usually keep as backup. If I wasn't about to go back to work, I would find my best Megaera log and link that - that's probably the best indicator of my cooldown usage. Expect me to link one sometime today, if I can manage it before or after raid starts tonight.

Totally accurate analysis. I fully admit I've been stuck in the mindset of using AMS to avoid certain, specific abilities, and thus I'm not in the habit of using it routinely on that fight. Certainly an area for personal improvement. Blood shield uptime should be low, since I'm taking consistent damage from impale even when the offtank has the boss. Whenever I lost my stacks, I would just taunt the boss back. Same deal with bone shield - no matter what, the charges get used very quickly because I'm taking consistent damage throughout the encounter. In terms of blood shield size, I agree it's not huge. It's a little difficult for me to compare with other people because a) no one else is main tanking it with an average 523 ilevel and b) I can't find anyone (I haven't looked that hard, but I've looked) that uses our tanking strat on iron qon. For example, a blood death knight who ranked similarly to me (Politeatron on US-Aerie Peak) managed to get blood shields averaging 311k in size - clearly superior to mine. However, I'm pretty sure he took all of the dogs and the boss in the last phase, based on a cursory scan of his damage taken and debuff tracker. Also, his gear was a lot better then mine (he has a 541 ilevel). Finally, I've gained about 30% mastery since that log, which would increase my average blood shield size to 308k, which matches (sort of) his average size, despite the fact that I still have inferior gear. Furthermore, if I took the boss and all the dogs at once, my blood shield values would inevitably skyrocket in that moment, boosting my average blood shield size further. Lastly, RC - I don't see how a 45% chance for the regeneration to proc can be seen as consistent. Blood tap is the most reliable talent, no matter what, because it always works (if you cap hit!). In addition, it's not that hard to maximize output if you acknowledge that you will be weaker for a few seconds after you spend your blood charges. I almost never hold onto my blood charges for very long, since I can plan out different cooldown usage, and in any case, I always have a death strike ready coming into a damaging mechanic (independent of blood charges). That may not have been very clear, so I'll try to break it down into something that might be a bit more readable: As a general rule, I use my blood charges before they cap to avoid waste. This is actually superior to RC in terms of output (proved by Rizor's math). If a mechanic is coming up within the next 7-8 seconds, I'll save my charges. I'll probably only waste about 4, which is an acceptable loss for the increased blood shields that will result after that mechanic is over. However, if I use my charges, but I start taking heavy damage for some unknown reason (healers aren't paying attention, I stand in something by accident, etc. etc.) then I pop a minor, or call for IB, or something like that. Usually, despite using the blood charges on a smaller than optimal blood shield, I'm fairly safe for a few seconds following that extra death strike. The real danger zone is from 3-5 seconds after that blood charge death strike, especially if I know that I need to save my backup death strike for an upcoming mechanic. But, here's the crucial thing - I know exactly when and where this danger zone will be, because of the consistency of blood tap. This moment of weakness is where I'll usually pop a cooldown I have available that isn't necessary for an upcoming mechanic. If I don't have one, I'll look at Hermes and call for one that's available. If no externals are available, then I'll scream for more healing like a little girl and hope a bloodworm will save me. I won't pretend it's ideal in the most dangerous of scenarios, but it's been proven in the field (by myself) as reliable, and it does unquestionably increase death strike output, as proven by SCIENCE. Plus, I can call for cooldowns like a pro, learned from watching slootbag for 30+ hours during t15 progression.

I totally understand - we raided without a haste buff for a few weeks in my old 10 man guild, and it was surprising how large of an effect it had on everyone's dps. Plus, I was all about securing rankings back then (I "secretly" still like getting them, but there's a lot less competition on 25h lol), and losing that haste gave me a definite disadvantage.

I was just browsing other dk apps, and I thought I'd post my thoughts on Rizor's math, because I'm off work today and have nothing better to do. Rizor's calculations are solid, for the most part. He doesn't account for haste, but perhaps that would make things too complicated, and very few death knights seriously stack haste enough to make a meaningful difference in those core calculations. However, blood tap does sort of require hit to be capped (so that RS never misses) in order to be effective as a tool for consistency (I noticed Rizor isn't hit capped). That isn't to say all other level 75 talents aren't improved when hit is capped, but blood tap is frequently valued for its consistency, etc. etc. My point is hopefully clear. One other thing I haven't seen in other threads is, at least in my mind, the real reason most blood death knights take RC - they can't handle more micromanagement. RC is valued for being a set and forget talent, not for its throughput. Theoretically (not just from a mathematical standpoint, but from an ideological one) RE and BT should always beat RC - they inherently require more thought. I wish RE was optimal for blood death knights, as I actually enjoy rune tetris, but as Rizor accurately states, it's random and the option to be able to store death strikes emphasizes the death knight strength of stacking up massive blood shields. Especially in 25 man content, I have found blood tap to be far and away the superior talent in that rune regen tier, assuming it is used properly. Esta asked an interesting question in Rizor's thread - "where might each talent shine, if at all?" The first thought I had was the effect of high levels of haste on these three regen talents. Rune regeneration time is, with no haste, 8.33 seconds per rune. Let's look at a situation where bloodlust is up - rune regeneration is now 6.41 seconds per rune. 2.5 extra seconds of rune regeneration/6.41 seconds = 0.4 death strikes per proc, thus 0.45*0.39 = 0.1755 death strikes per RS, or 5.7 rune strikes per DS (all on average). It's still mediocre, but RC is now starting to seem viable in heavy haste scenarios, and it also boosts blood rune regen, for additional dps. RC might be the best talent on Sinestra, for example. It seems unlikely that there will never be another progression encounter with a persistent, major haste buff. Yet, these assumptions made in the last paragraph are all made in a vacuum only considering RC. Haste benefits all rune regen talents because, ultimately, haste speeds up the blood death knight rotation. More rune strikes are going to go off no matter what, and with any level 75 talent, that will accordingly increase rune regeneration. The final nail in the coffin is that Blizzard saw this haste scaling issue coming, and preemptively designed RC such that the duration for which it speeds up rune regeneration scales with haste. RC will always be the worst talent for regen, no matter the circumstance, and that's entirely appropriate, for it requires the least skill of the three options in that talent tier. It's worth noting that I'm not trying to play a game of one-up with other tank applicants in this post (despite how it might seem). I'm just bored and like talking about my class. If any other applicants read this and have thoughts, I want to hear them and have a discussion. That's how I learned the fine mechanics of my class, and I suspect I have more to learn. Really, anyone who wants to post should feel welcome, because posts on this thread have been kind of sparse (compared to other applicant threads, at least) and I'm interested in talking about WoW with people who love it as much as I do. We don't even have to talk about blood death knights xD

Hey guys, I'm now 536 (it's not inflated because of the 608 cloak, I'm still only 4 runestones in =/) and 9/13h on 25 man. Obviously I am still eighteen years old, so if that's still a roadblock, I understand, but I'm significantly more qualified in the gameplay department for my blood dk compared to before. Perhaps your best indicator of my skill level will be the log where I main tanked heroic 25 man iron qon on progression with a 523 ilevel. I was almost convinced to do it with a dps trinket too, but I loved the massive blood shields too much (and would have died without them when all dogs came down, lol) http://www.worldoflo.../?s=4883&e=5564 I'm not one tanking, but the offtank is basically taking the boss long enough for my impale to reset and he also took the boss when all of the dogs came down in the last phase. I'm taking the majority of the damage ( easily visible in the logs). Also, yes, I die at the very end of the log that I'm showcasing. I'll make my excuses if you ask for them. Any other logs are worth checking out, but this is perhaps the best indicator of my skill while under the threat of constant death. Despite what you guys said above, once my gear got above 530 average ilevel, heroic 25 bosses aren't consistently dangerous (e.g. killing Twin Consorts tonight, I felt like I was tanking a boss on 10h), and though I don't think I played badly on these logs where I was geared, I don't think my cooldown use was necessarily as optimized as it could have been. You could argue that constant vigilance is necessary even on easy content, but I'd argue that I'm still pulling good damage (frequently ranking) and not drawing healer attention (check any of my healing taken logs), thus fulfilling my duties as a tank. I'm also not totally throwing my cooldown use out of the window. I might just choose to pool death strikes instead of popping a cooldown on a second breath on Megaera, because I'm crazy like that. I'm still watching mechanics closely, just reacting to them in a manner that an undergeared character might not necessarily be able to do. I understand someone will undoubtedly have thoughts about this, so assuming you don't immediately deny me because I'm 18, I'm happy to discuss this. I should note that I do like this guild I've recently joined very much, but I'm sending this message because it is likely that my summer job will conflict a little too much with this guild's raid times. Despite a listed 8EST start time, they frequently form up at 7:30EST and give raid spots based on who's there first. I like this system a lot, and it's worked out for me well so far, but as my time becomes limited this summer (I knew 8EST was tricky but doable, however, 7:30EST is unfortunately out of the question for me in combination with my summer job). Your raid times are so comfortable for my schedule it's ridiculous, and I don't see that changing even through the "turbulent" course of my young adult life. Plus, I'll admit, the last two weeks of tanking in a 25 heroic progression guild have been some of the most fun I've had in the game since Dragon Soul. I've been bitten by the 25m tanking bug, and I don't plan to leave it behind any time soon. Once again, I'm not trying to be obnoxious and I'm totally fine with withdrawing permanently if age is a true roadblock. However, I'm a much more attractive candidate for your tanking spot at this point, so I thought I'd just send this quick feeler to hear your thoughts. Your professional attitude, even though it resulted in a denial, left a good impression and hopefully you'll see me in a *slightly* different light now that I'm closer to your level.

Also, I'm not trying to be snarky - I enjoyed reading your app and picked up a few things while reading it. I hope you get the spot

Glyphed VB, or any buffs that increase/decrease healing done, don't affect blood shield. http://elitistjerks.com/f72/t130560-blood_tanking_actively_mitigating_since_before_cool/#Frequently_Asked_Questions "Q: My Death Strike heal gets increased by Vampiric Blood and other encounter specific buffs, why isn't my Blood Shield going up? Is that normal? A: Yes, that's normal. While Death Strike healing is affected by Mortal Strike debuffs and +healing done/received buffs, Blood Shield ignores them (so we don't end up too good or too bad on encounters with +healing received/done and -healing received/done, respectively)."

No problem, I wish you guys luck in finding the right tank for your group!