Aion guild application

[Biscuits]

I ~loved~ 40 man raids. I had a great time! There was a an entire world not tapped into with small raids, such as the "great" guilds must have good management skills as well as gaming skills, good leadership, have a good handle on delegation, etc. Oh, fun times!

I like small raids too as they are more intimate () and require more individual gaming skill and responsibility once inside the instance. But there is nothing like rolling in a raid 40 strong. Small raids just don't have that "WHOA" factor for me on a first kill. /shrug I guess cause they're just not as hard logistically speaking.

Having tooted the big raid horn though, the stress on officers for big raids is pretty hard core (I refuse to do it). I have never seen a freak out like those given by officers when 40 mans go badly. :eek: Yikes. Can reduce normal men to ranting sociopaths!

Still, assuming all other things equal, the bigger the better.

[discofire]

Still, assuming all other things equal, the bigger the better.

Would you like my number?:Onion28:

[discofire]

Completely agree. "Grind" has just become a four-letter word, that's all. I'm from DAoC where quests were kind of an oddity, apart from your class-specific epic series. You even learn to play your class better in a "killing mobs to level" situation, because on the whole you're spending more time in combat! That was certainly my experience, and you can learn a lot more than you think by just putting forth the effort to pick up on things you wouldn't have noticed otherwise and not turning off your brain to go on autopilot to grind.

Most quest...invlove killing things, so I fail to see the distinction. I hate quests that are poorly planned, the Barrens area in WoW at launch for example, so poorly planned that horded lvl 50% slower than Alliance on average. Quests that are well planned, well written and executed are awesome. You often end up exploring more of the world than just going to the "OMG FAST SPAWN HERE GUISE!" spots, overall I find it to be more engaging. I certainly love killing things. I do it with passion. I just don't want to do that exclusively the first time through. I think you miss out on a lot of the lore from the world the game creates if it is just "Beat things with a stick to get xp". The first time through, after my first 40 in WAR I lvl'd everyone else through RvR/SCs only. One thing I wish WAR had more of was class quests, for example it's never explained how WE/H get the ability to stealth it is all just:

*BAM!*

Mr. Stabby: "Uhhh...excuse me, what was that?"

Trainer McTrainerface: "You just learned how to stealth!"

Mr. Stabby: "I did? Oh. Okay, that's kinda neat...so it's this lil' button here? Right? This one?"

Trainer McTrainerface: "WHAT? I CAN'T SEE YOU. LOOK AT ME WHEN I AM TALKIN' TO YOU!!"

I also don't care for games that are OVERLY group based, even for leveling, it just sucks if you have odd hours or hate PuGs, like I do. I have Pugophobia. For, RvR and Raids, I expect it (And obviously will group with friends/guildies at that point), but I should be able to lvl easily enough solo if I so wish.

That being said, maybe Aion will get less grindy in feel to me, who knows. If it turns out I really don't like FE I might still pick it up to play with you guys. If someone reserveres the name Disco for me on the select server that is. =P

[Biscuits]

If someone reserveres the name Disco for me on the select server that is. =P

I think he means you, Ashlin.

[Ashin]

Well you make a good argument for having some quests to feed you the backstory and point out some areas. But I don't see you making a case for level-by-quest exclusively with that.

Also, if we're talking about the intangible rewards for exploration, that can't possibly come as the result of a quest. When a designer moves you around like a puppet and brings you to a certain place, that isn't exploration. You need open-ended gameplay for that.

Of course, AION is an amusement park game just like all the others, so I'm not claiming it has this brilliant, open-ended gameplay. But EVE has taught me to appreciate games that let me wander off and go do my own thing, even if my own thing is picking a spot where the mobs are fun to fight and then farming them. I like quests, but maybe I have changed a bit and don't like when there is nothing but quests.

As for grouping...

Long long ago, in ancient times, we used to be able to group outdoors. WoW changed all that, with its precise, risk/reward-based computation that outdoors would be for soloing, and instances would be for groups. EQ2 quickly redesigned the entire game to follow this model - I remember SoH was very unhappy with it at the time. Most games now follow this model too. The entire gameworld is for soloing efficiently while avoiding other people as much as possible, and then you group as a necessary evil to get your leet gear from a dungeon.

I was happy to see LotRo take some deviation from this - there were areas of the map that were quest/reward intensive but required a team of some sort to navigate. And I'm very happy AION will have that too. Such areas form a middle ground between soloing endlessly and going to dungeons where a minimum time commitment of an hour or three is expected.

You know what I find in games that are group-intensive? It's easier to find groups, b/c everyone wants them.

[discofire]

Well you make a good argument for having some quests to feed you the backstory and point out some areas. But I don't see you making a case for level-by-quest exclusively with that.

Also, if we're talking about the intangible rewards for exploration, that can't possibly come as the result of a quest. When a designer moves you around like a puppet and brings you to a certain place, that isn't exploration. You need open-ended gameplay for that.

Of course, AION is an amusement park game just like all the others, so I'm not claiming it has this brilliant, open-ended gameplay. But EVE has taught me to appreciate games that let me wander off and go do my own thing, even if my own thing is picking a spot where the mobs are fun to fight and then farming them. I like quests, but maybe I have changed a bit and don't like when there is nothing but quests.

As for grouping...

Long long ago, in ancient times, we used to be able to group outdoors. WoW changed all that, with its precise, risk/reward-based computation that outdoors would be for soloing, and instances would be for groups. EQ2 quickly redesigned the entire game to follow this model - I remember SoH was very unhappy with it at the time. Most games now follow this model too. The entire gameworld is for soloing efficiently while avoiding other people as much as possible, and then you group as a necessary evil to get your leet gear from a dungeon.

I was happy to see LotRo take some deviation from this - there were areas of the map that were quest/reward intensive but required a team of some sort to navigate. And I'm very happy AION will have that too. Such areas form a middle ground between soloing endlessly and going to dungeons where a minimum time commitment of an hour or three is expected.

You know what I find in games that are group-intensive? It's easier to find groups, b/c everyone wants them.

They are called designers and developers for a reason, you can't just piece together a game and hope people will like the story, etc. That is crap. =P

Also, you could totally lvl in WAR just fighting mobs, if you chose to do so. So, again, I don't see the distinction, most games that have quests don't force you to do them.

[Ashin]

They are called designers and developers for a reason, you can't just piece together a game and hope people will like the story, etc. That is crap. =P

I would argue that designing an open-ended game is in fact vastly harder and requires much more creativity from the designers. Which is why almost none of them even try to do it. It is also why game companies make a big deal out of any semblance of choice in games - "omg your CHOICE in this quest will effect THE OUTCOME... SHAPE YOUR DESINTY!!!" - because it is such a rare and precious commodity.

[discofire]

There are very few good open design games for that reason. My love of quests and open ended games are mutually exclusive, it's great if they overlap, but they don't have to, so long as both are done well. In Aion I honestly felt it was more grinding than anything, and I didn't care for it that much. Although I am mad at FE right now...it keeps crashing, so you may change my opinion. LOL.

/frown.

[Tayomi]

AC was very open ended. Multiple staring zones, who you became depending on where you spent your stats. You could wear any armor, since there was no class. Which lead to many FoTM and many rerolls, till they made it so you could respec slowly over time which lead to even more FoTM.

Tho I will admit at 5+ years it is the game I played the longest, and will always be my 1st MMo love.

Linear game/quest progression is easier on the devs I'm sure. But the games I enjoy at least give you the impression of being very varied.

I am trying Aion, because there are aspects of it that I enjoy. I'm hoping I can get past the lack luster PvE and quest system and fall in love with the game when we hit the PvPvE land.

[Ashin]

In Aion I honestly felt it was more grinding than anything, and I didn't care for it that much. Although I am mad at FE right now...it keeps crashing, so you may change my opinion. LOL. /frown.

I don't mean to imply that AION is open ended. It is extremely structured from what I've seen so far.

I am trying Aion, because there are aspects of it that I enjoy. I'm hoping I can get past the lack luster PvE and quest system and fall in love with the game when we hit the PvPvE land.

PvE seems top-notch to me. /shrug