Namour 509 Hunter

[Stridur]

1) ok no problem

3) It is a loss for bm but for survival is was dps increase. I can see why you went this route since bm was the dominate spec in 5.1. In 5.2 the first 4-5 fights really do favor surv over the rest.

4) The thing with bm on Jin Rok is that your pet doesn't benefit from buff you get from the pool. I know you haven't seen much of the bosses but the final 5 bosses of the tier, are all primarily single target and will favor whichever of the three specs you feel you're best at playing. Beast Mastery will be the easiest to maintain strong single target with, while Marksmanship should perform just as equally or slightly better if played particularly well (which is hard to do, especially at this gear level). Survival is a good fall back point because it will still have its uses, especially on Lei Shen, and can keep up pace with the other two specs single target. Played at an equal level it will be a downgrade, but played at a better level than you'd play the other two you'll see an increase.

Overall good feedback , and I'll wait to get to the screenshots. Im really happy with your answers and your app , just bear mind we run tight roster and you would be replacing one of our hunters who is here 100% of time that is looking for his replacement to retire. If there is any way you can findout for sure how much it would happen would be great. Wish you the best of luck on your app.

Edited March 16, 2013 by Stridur

[Namour]

Stridur-

Here are the screenshots:

SV raid SS: http://i46.tinypic.com/on0d0.jpg

BM raid SS: http://i45.tinypic.com/dzjuco.jpg

Redid the FD gemming comparison as SV and it showed a 250+ dps increase, agreeing with your analysis. Still feels like a toss up (less than .5% either way), but given the preference of SV in this tier, seems a good idea to default to agi over crit in these 2 gearing cases. Thanks for bringing that to my attention.

Thanks for the spec tips on the later fights. I enjoy BM and feel much more fluid at this point than MM (would take me a couple weeks to get back to mastery) so that will likely be my single target spec, although I will start playing around with MM again so I can quickly make that switch if/when gear scaling makes it stronger than the other 2 (versus on par).

The way my wife's schedule works (it gets set for 4 weeks at a time about a month in advance), I can't assure a consistent day when this occurs (althoug I can provide significant lead time in posting the days), but having worked with this situation for last year+, I am confidant in saying the typical frequency is once a week, just different days from week to week, with occassionally 2x in certain weeks and 0 times in other weeks. I would love to not have this issue, but it is not something I can avoid, unfortunately. I do understand why it is an issue for a team that runs a lean roster. Sorry I can't do any better on addressing this concern.

[Merriwhizzle]

Hi!

[Namour]

Hello Merriwhizzle! (great name, btw)

[Ashin]

Hey Namour,

It was nice to chat with you over the weekend. Just a quick post to let you know that I've not forgotten about you but unfortunately have not reached any decisions yet.

[Namour]

Ok, np; thanks for the update. I am happy to wait as you decide, as this group is my clear top choice over the other invite I have been given. I hope you choose to bring me on!

Namour

[Ashin]

Hi Namour,

I remain very interested in the app and I'm going to bump you up to guest status so you can cruise around more of the site.

I'm thinking "out loud" here and inviting you to help me reach my decision. As I mentioned to you, the idea of a bigger roster with rotated players is a bit new to us, but something we know that we need to do in order to increase the stability and flexibility of the team. Due to our limited, 9 hour schedule, I am not inclined to rotate raiders fight-by-fight. The way I envision this working is that we have everyone call in their availability by Monday and I let everyone know whom we are taking each night. Raiders who are on standby are still expected to be available in case something changes.

So, in your case, I just want to make it clear that joining SoH won't mean missing a random fight, because I simply don't want to operate that way. Rather, it means that on those nights when you need to pick up your daughter, you likely won't be raiding at all. The first question is whether or not you feel fully comfortable with that, or whether you'd rather sign up for a team with a bulkier roster and fight-by-fight rotations as a standard practice.

Assuming we pass that check point, the other thing I need to think about is that taking you on will result in less flexibility for me. Suppose we begin working on a progression fight Wednesday night. We invest the 3 hour learning curve and you are part of that group. We're now going back on Thursday to continue our work, but regrettably Thursday is a night you need to pick up your daughter. So you can see the concern it creates for me - without restrictions, I would prefer not to change the roster at all between Wed. and Thurs. in that example. But your schedule will dictate that I do so.

It's certainly possible that you'd be such a great addition to our team otherwise that it's worth this downside, which is manageable. But that's where my thoughts get hung up.

So, with all that said, what do you think?

[Namour]

Ashin-

Ok, 2 part response; first, how do I feel about what you propose from my standpoint as a player:

I would be fine with the role you describe. It is not my ideal, but there are three things that are very high priorities for me in finding a guild that outweigh any concerns I might have about this sort of raid schedule (I am flexible person and understand the nature of tradeoffs in life).

1) A group dynamic that values a wide range of people and is courteous and bawdy at the same time

2) A thoughtful and coherent guild leadership philosophy

3) Capable progression with reasonable amounts of raid time

It VERY hard to find all 3. My sense of SOH thus far is that all three are present here. I have been very impressed by the nature of all the communications I have had and have seen been had with others on these forums and in game as far as they speak to points 1 and 2, and WoW progress speaks to the 3rd.

Now for part 2:

I have been thinking about the raid schedule dilemma you are wrestling with too, and the key concern I would have if I were you would be the part of wanting to sustain team continuity on progression fights from night to night. I think this is essential from a progression standpoint, and finding a way to make that work would be paramount to me as a raid leader.

While I do understand the vital importance of minimizing disruptions during the short 3 hour raid nights, I think you perhaps overestimate the impact of a few swaps over the course of the night for the roster size you are contemplating. Certainly, if you are running a heavy roster of 31-33 (which I have been part of at times in my career), with 3-4 swaps per fight, things can get really bogged down between fights (extending well beyond trash time).

However, the logistics of working a disciplined raid team of 27-28 means 2-3 additional people in here and there (not swapping every fight, but maybe 1 swap every other fight) and is a very different deal in my experience and opinion in terms of its impact on maintaining pace and momentum as a raid group through the instance. Training the raid team to anticipate swaps (by having them pre-planned) with clear expectations that people are "present" and listening on mumble throughout the night when they are not in so they are logged onto main at entrance before boss dies ensures maintaining the type of efficiency you need to succeed with a 9 hour raid week. My presumption if you are running 25 lean is that you have a disciplined and engaged raid team, which is why I think working in some (not a lot) of raid swapping during a raid night might actually work well. Also, taking this mindset addresses the principle concern of keeping progression groups consistent from night to night.

Thats all I have for now.

Thanks for the promotion to guest status so I can look around!

Namour

Edited March 20, 2013 by Namour Hunter

[Ashin]

I actually got called away by work and subsequently forgot to change your access. Now you're a Guest.

[Namour]

Moving this discussion over to my recruitment thread so I don't confuse things on Elycee's...

I would never claim to be an expert on Hunters (wouldn't even say I'm proficient). But I do remember a discussion with a Hunter friend of mine recently about not putting KC in a macro with BW, as server-side lag and spell queue can cause the KC to go off before you pet is buffed by BW. May e check your logs and find out if that's the case here?

Just looked over the logs I posted for a 10 man H Vizier kill and looked more carefully for what you were describing (http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-f0ntje2vw00e1cmn/xe/?s=8260&e=8732&x=spell+%3D+%22Kill+Command%22%0D%0AOR+spell+%3D+%22Bestial+Wrath%22).

I noticed at least 2x where what you are describing occurred. Also see a number of times it worked fine. I think it is debatable whether the simplicity of one key press for 2 actions compensates for the minor damage loss (on non crits, looks like the different is about 20-30k damage). From a true max min standpoint, better to separate. From the realities of my reactions times as a human, I am not so sure I would actually do better. I do appreciate knowing about the trade-off, though. Thank you for pointing that out!